dude, honest abe's a 'mo! ([info]ex_sporknin) wrote in [info]booju_newju,
2009-09-14 18:57:00
A group of schoolchildren voted 13-1 to send a lamb to slaughter as part of their education at a learning farm.


Mon Sep 14, 2:10 pm ET

LONDON (Reuters) – A group of schoolchildren who reared a lamb from birth and named it Marcus has overridden objections by parents and rights activists and voted to send the animal to slaughter.

Marcus the six-month-old lamb has now been culled, the head teacher of the primary school in Kent confirmed on Monday, after the school's council -- a 14-member group of children aged 6 to 11 -- voted 13-1 to have him killed.

The decision has provoked fury among animal-loving celebrities, animal and human rights campaigners and the parents of some of the children, and led to threats against Lydd primary school and its teachers, according to a member of staff.

Around 250 children at the school take part in a program designed to teach them about rearing and breeding animals.

The educational farm was started this year, with Marcus being hand-fed by the children. The children also look after ducks, chickens, rabbits and guinea pigs.

The intention had been to buy pigs with the money raised from slaughtering Marcus, but those plans have been put on hold following the furor created by the lamb's culling. The school said the program may now have to be stopped.

"It's all up in the air," said a member of staff. "There's been so much pressure on us as a result of all this."

Despite that, the school said there had been overwhelming support among the children, the staff and most of the parents to have Marcus -- a castrated male who could not have been used for breeding -- sent to the slaughterhouse.

But opponents branded it heartless and cruel, with animal rights campaigners asking why Marcus could not have been used to teach the children about wool, and human rights campaigners worried about the emotional impact of Marcus's death on the children.

A popular talkshow host offered to buy the lamb and give it sanctuary and Facebook groups sprung up to rally support to keep Marcus alive. But the children had the final say. The school defended the children's decision, calling it educational.

"When we started the farm in spring 2009, the aim was to educate the children in all aspects of farming life and everything that implies," the school said in a statement.

"The children have had a range of opportunities to discuss this issue, both in terms of the food cycle and the ethical aspect... It is important for everyone to move on from this issue, so the children can focus on their education."

(Reporting by Luke Baker; Editing by Steve Addison)


How would you feel if this had happened at your child's school? What if they had voted to send the lamb to slaughter? What if they had been the single vote against it, and were severely emotionally affected by the decision? How would you handle that?

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[info]ex_sporknin

September 14 2009, 23:08:59 UTC 2 years ago

I think the whole learning farm idea is wonderful, and I'd the issue of the lamb is something I'd hope we'd discuss as soon as it came up. I honestly am not sure I'm okay with that question being posed to a group of 6-11 year olds, though I'd be fine with it being asked of a group of say, 13-18 year olds. Whichever decision my child would make, I'd support them as long as their reasoning was sound. If they were the sole holdout and having a hard time with it, I'd try to help them understand that it really is a big part of farm life, but I'd raise more hell about the issue than I would if they'd voted for it, I think.

[info]katsiss

September 14 2009, 23:13:23 UTC 2 years ago

I think programs like this should be reserved for 4-H and the FFA.

[info]alirose

September 14 2009, 23:14:39 UTC 2 years ago

Fact: animals are killed for food. We eat meat in my house and so I don't see a problem with teaching children about this fact. It's not like the kids are killing the animal themselves. If my kid were the 1 vote against I would try to talk to them about it and hopefully help them understand the whole circle of life thing.

[info]__roflcopter

September 15 2009, 04:44:39 UTC 2 years ago

This

[info]kuangning

September 14 2009, 23:14:54 UTC 2 years ago

Ugh. You know, I'd be less against this if the lamb had wound up on their plates. We killed our own animals for food when I was growing up, and that's fine, or we had someone come in and slaughter the big animals (anything larger than our pigs) if we couldn't control them enough to make it a clean kill, and that's also fine. Sending him off and him never coming back shields them from the end of the cycle and the real consequences of their actions. I think every child who voted for killing him should have been present when he was slaughtered.

[info]balamuthia

September 14 2009, 23:21:43 UTC 2 years ago


I don't know that I would go so far as to have a six year old be present at the slaughtering itself, but I think it would be reasonable for them to then eat a meal which was the lamb they sent to slaughter.

If people are so grossed out by the idea of raising an animal, killing it, carving it up and consuming it, then why do they eat meat anyway?

[info]kuangning

2 years ago

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[info]ekstrapiksels

2 years ago

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[info]kuangning

2 years ago

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[info]balamuthia

2 years ago

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[info]kuangning

2 years ago

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[info]shahrizai

2 years ago

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[info]kuangning

2 years ago

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[info]theretohere

2 years ago

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[info]balamuthia

2 years ago

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[info]theretohere

2 years ago

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[info]balamuthia

2 years ago

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[info]theretohere

2 years ago

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[info]kuangning

2 years ago

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[info]pyxiwulf

2 years ago

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...and 4 more comments... from [info]cosmos_calling, [info]hexkitten, [info]babyblooz Expand

[info]super_sonic

2 years ago

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[info]soveryemo

2 years ago

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[info]ekstrapiksels

September 14 2009, 23:15:40 UTC 2 years ago

Had the kids been led to believe it was a pet and just a pet (as in, sans farm context), hell yeah I can see it being skeevy.

But since it was part of a farm project, and stock animals (even stock animals that have been hand-fed) sometimes find themselves individually packaged in the fridge, I find it hard to take the protests seriously. Some kids don't even know where the food in the grocery store comes from. For these kids to have this experience first-hand could possibly pave the way for more ethically-minded consumers.

[info]balamuthia

September 14 2009, 23:17:38 UTC 2 years ago

I wonder how many of the parents who were against sending the lamb to a slaughterhouse then cooked meat for dinner?

I wonder, because the children in the program were there to learn about farm production and all aspects of it- which includes raising animals for people to kill and eat. This is a cycle that happens every single day across the world, and frankly it disturbs me how removed from this process we've become.

We go buy meat and it comes in neat, clean little packages or patties or nuggets and we never consider the animals and resources it took to get it to us in that form.

My kids know that beef is cow, that tuna is a type of fish, and that cheese and eggs come from very specific animals. I believe that anything can be an educational experience, and that includes the food we eat.

If my child had been the only dissenting voice in the program, I would have to do what I could to help him feel better emotionally- but his voice shouldn't override the 12 other children who voted to slaughter the lamb.

If the parents were unaware that this was a possibility when they enrolled the children in the program, then the administration would definitely have some answering to do.

[info]lordhellebore

September 15 2009, 06:43:14 UTC 2 years ago

I wonder how many of the parents who were against sending the lamb to a slaughterhouse then cooked meat for dinner?

That was my first thought. Hypocrisy, yay.

[info]breakableheart

September 14 2009, 23:36:36 UTC 2 years ago

I support this 100%. I eat lamb. Lamb tastes good. A castrated male lamb is good for only one thing - dinner. Slaughter for food is the appropriate and normal use of this livestock animal. It is neither cruel or heartless to use the animal for its intended purpose, so long as the animal is raised humanely (appears so!) and slaughtered in a humane fashion (I'm guessing in this case yes!)

If my child had been the one who voted against slaughter then we'd have a discussion about compassion and empathy and food and bob loblaw. I'm not against people being veg*ns for whatever reason they choose; if this event ended up in my child becoming a veg*n then I'd support that. If they simply wanted to be broken hearted about this lamb and still eat meat, then we'd have a little bit of talk about compassion, empathy, and hypocrisy.

People need to get a grip. Seriously.

[info]zeldazonk

September 14 2009, 23:53:13 UTC 2 years ago

Why do people write it as veg*ns? What did the a do wrong?




I love roasting lamb. I'm not fond of eating it, but I do love preparing it.

[info]breakableheart

2 years ago

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[info]hexkitten

2 years ago

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[info]nothingmuch

September 14 2009, 23:38:35 UTC 2 years ago

Oh ffs what a bunch of whiny bullshit!

How would you feel if this had happened at your child's school?

It happens every year. It's called Ag class. Every year, kids raise cows, bulls, sheep, chickens, etc. and take them to the county fair to show. The kids win prizes, the animals are auctioned off and sent to slaughter, and the money goes to send the kids to college.

What if they had been the single vote against it, and were severely emotionally affected by the decision? How would you handle that?

I would tell him that livestock is for eating but if he's uncomfortable with where meat comes from he's free to be a vegetarian.

[info]darth_snarky

September 15 2009, 02:55:49 UTC 2 years ago

I just read this and wondered what all the people might think of my city's Agriculture School. It's a public school, too, so all that learning how to slaughter livestock is being paid for by your tax dollars!

[info]ex_sporknin

2 years ago

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[info]zeldazonk

September 14 2009, 23:52:00 UTC 2 years ago

Considering we roast the whole lamb at home in the yard, I'd be wondering what my kid was so upset about. I think it's illegal to slaughter it in your own yard, otherwise I'm sure my father would jump at the opportunity. I've seen it done, and while I don't *like* that it has to die...c'est la vie.



I also don't get why the kids would freak out over one lamb, when I am sure they all eat meat. Those animals get killed, too.

[info]owlsarentaholes

September 15 2009, 01:52:15 UTC 2 years ago

Around here, some religious groups look for farms that will allow them to slaughter a goat on site, as part of their holiday traditions. Mike wants to start raising goats and letting people come here and do their thing . . . I'm okay with it in theory, but he's going to have to be the one who sets the ball in motion for THAT plan.

[info]theretohere

2 years ago

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[info]kaowolfie

2 years ago

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[info]owlsarentaholes

2 years ago

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[info]cosmos_calling

2 years ago

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[info]waytogojeremy

September 14 2009, 23:58:51 UTC 2 years ago

It's the voting that creeps me out.

[info]beekeeperswife

September 15 2009, 00:17:45 UTC 2 years ago

Same. If it had been decided before hand, it be a lot less creepy. It's very Lord of the Flies to me, or something.

[info]anaralia

2 years ago

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[info]chellsianderson

2 years ago

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[info]babity

2 years ago

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[info]breakableheart

2 years ago

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[info]seriouscookie

September 15 2009, 00:16:35 UTC 2 years ago

I don't like it. Maybe that makes me a big old bleeding heart hippie but oh, well. It would make me sad if my child had the opportunity to spare a life, especially one that had likely come to trust her. Yes, I know that meat comes from animals but in this case, this isn't something we would eat. We don't eat lamb, veal, (I don't even eat eggs, but again, I'm kinda hippie). I definitely wouldn't want it done at my child's school.
And I agree that the voting part makes it extra creepy.

[info]ex_sporknin

September 15 2009, 05:51:01 UTC 2 years ago

You and I are more or less in the same boat there, although I love eggs.

[info]nothingmuch

September 15 2009, 00:17:29 UTC 2 years ago Edited:  September 15 2009, 00:21:41 UTC

Also, this article is lulzy.

The decision has provoked fury among animal-loving celebrities, animal and human rights campaigners and the parents of some of the children, and led to threats against Lydd primary school and its teachers, according to a member of staff.

Threats against the school and teachers? Way to respect life, dudes!

But opponents branded it heartless and cruel, with animal rights campaigners asking why Marcus could not have been used to teach the children about wool

Since when do animal rights groups support wool production?

A popular talkshow host offered to buy the lamb and give it sanctuary

Right, because THAT'S how farms make money: not by raising and selling livestock for food and cloth, but by giving all the little baby animals sanctuary. *eyeroll* The class is about farming, not running a petting zoo.

[info]balamuthia

September 15 2009, 01:30:20 UTC 2 years ago Edited:  September 15 2009, 01:35:42 UTC

PETA is hardly the only animal rights group in existence, but it's almost always the one that the wingnuts jump to when anyone mentions treating animals in an ethical fashion.

[info]nothingmuch

2 years ago

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[info]balamuthia

2 years ago

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[info]nothingmuch

2 years ago

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[info]amyura

September 15 2009, 00:37:46 UTC 2 years ago

Ehh. Does the school serve meat? I have no problem with kids learning from an early age where their food comes from. All this hearts-and-flowers, cute-little-farm-animals stuff is a lie. Domesticated farm animals basically wouldn't exist if we didn't eat meat-- they've co-evolved with humans and can't survive in the wild.

The only thing I find a little weird is the voting.

[info]bloodpara

September 15 2009, 01:08:05 UTC 2 years ago

Been there done that, makes no difference than dissecting a frog for science class.

[info]firiels_cat

September 15 2009, 04:35:31 UTC 2 years ago

But we didn't get to eat our frogs.

[info]ex_sporknin

2 years ago

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[info]cereta

September 15 2009, 01:24:49 UTC 2 years ago

If my kid is going to eat meat (and she does), she'd better be comfortable with where it comes from. I don't really see her making it much past the first grade in central IL without seeing a farm and knowing all this.

[info]handsomexdevil

September 15 2009, 01:41:59 UTC 2 years ago

I think that's awesome, I'm not going to lie.

[info]bestdaywelived

September 15 2009, 01:47:11 UTC 2 years ago

I would sincerely hope that my child wasn't part of the group of 13. My guess is that one or two of the little monsters wanted to see it, and the rest didn't want to seem uncool by passing on it.

[info]theretohere

September 15 2009, 02:00:59 UTC 2 years ago

What?!? Why are they monsters? What else do you logically do with a farm raised animal that is castrated?

[info]breakableheart

2 years ago

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[info]thebohomama

2 years ago

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[info]owlsarentaholes

September 15 2009, 01:48:53 UTC 2 years ago

It sounds like a really cool program.

I have no objection to ethical farming. It sounds like Marcus had a good life, and while I'm not sure how *I* would have voted (because I still can't be certain I could send an animal to slaughter after raising it), I don't think the kids made a bad decision.

Even if my kid was the sole vote against the slaughter, I don't think s/he would be forever scarred by what happened. I'd sympathize, and I'd be sad right along with him or her, but they were raising the lamb with this end result in mind.

[info]babity

September 15 2009, 01:56:51 UTC 2 years ago

An animal slaughtered? That is so new!

Ugh, I would probably not care, if my kid voted for it.

If my kid voted against it we would have a lot of discussions about how not eating meat or paying for/using anything that came from an animal saves their lives, and how to become vegan.

[info]mohavedatura

September 15 2009, 02:12:35 UTC 2 years ago

The only part I might have a problem with is if the kids were not told from the beginning that this animal would eventually be slaughtered. Though I've been told by folks who raise meat (including the lady who raises my pig every year) that you usually choose names like Lambchop or something. We don't raise our own meat but we try to buy what we can from friends we know who raise it themselves. We've explained to our kids that the pig in our freezer eat had a much happier life than the pigs in the supermarket. It also tastes better because it ate good food when it was alive.

I think parents who have a problem with this should probably opt out of a class that involves raising livestock.

[info]breakableheart

September 15 2009, 02:17:46 UTC 2 years ago

I'm not gonna lie - I really don't care for ham. But last year we had a pig raised for us and HOLY DAMN! The ham is the most excellent awesomeness I've tasted. All the meat is good, but that ham... I dream about it.

[info]mohavedatura

2 years ago

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[info]sixdemonhag

2 years ago

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[info]owlsarentaholes

2 years ago

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[info]hexkitten

September 15 2009, 03:17:07 UTC 2 years ago

OH, THAT POOR LITTLE DEFENSELESS LAMB! *chomps on a bite of steak wrapped in bacon* HOW COULD THE SCHOOL LET THE KIDS VOTE TO HAVE IT SLAUGHTERED? *scoops a ladle of lamb stew onto my plate, next to the slab of roasted pork* THAT IS INHUMANE!

Really, where do these people think the meat comes from?

I'd cringe if I heard my kid's school was doing this, but that's because I don't eat meat because I feel bad for the widdle animals. I'm guessing my kid will still be eating meat, just as his father does. I'm also going to guess that the school explained what it means to send an animal to slaughter. So, he'll have a hand in the chain from which his food comes, and I think that's all well and good.

[info]ex_sporknin

September 15 2009, 05:46:27 UTC 2 years ago

Not wanting to send an animal you named and raised yourself to slaughter does not equal having no idea where meat comes from.

[info]hexkitten

2 years ago

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[info]ex_sporknin

2 years ago

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[info]mybabythomas

2 years ago

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[info]apis_cerana

September 15 2009, 04:34:55 UTC 2 years ago

I think it's weird that they put that to a vote o_O they should just slaughter it without something like that.

Otherwise I think it's very important for kids to know where meat comes from so they would learn to appreciate it more.

[info]firiels_cat

September 15 2009, 04:42:41 UTC 2 years ago

I can't say I care that much one way or the other. As long as the kids knew that the lamb would be slaughtered from the outset, it's not a big deal. I'm not sure about the voting and such. But why doesn't anyone make a big deal about the cruelty of castrating the poor animal?

[info]lisasimpsonfan

September 15 2009, 05:07:26 UTC 2 years ago

Male animals are usually castrated on a farm unless they are specifically going to be used for breeding. Lack of male hormones make it much easier to handle and less aggressive around other animals.

[info]pyxiwulf

2 years ago

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[info]lisasimpsonfan

September 15 2009, 05:03:17 UTC 2 years ago

How dare they teach children that meat comes from REAL LIVE animals and not pretty little packages found in the grocery store????

Most of society is so far distanced from their food that they don't have a real idea of where their food is coming from. I have always been honest with my daughter where her food comes from and I want her to be aware of what she is eating.

[info]hep

September 15 2009, 06:27:26 UTC 2 years ago

most farm animals are for eating. as a parent on a working farm, my kids understand that. except instead of sending a lamb to slaughter once, we kill chickens (raised from eggs) all day long and at least once a year put one of the cows up for meat. about the only animals around here who don't eventually get eaten are the cats and that is just because cat tastes like crap.
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